The Lion of Nnewi a no holds bard interview on Nigeria

THE AFRICAN CONUNDRUM
As an historian, do you subscribe to
the view that sustainable progress
in Africa is impossible without
accounting for the repressive
aspects of its history: the slave
trade, colonialism, neo-colonialism
and racism?

You cannot know where you are
going or coming from, if you’ve no
sense of history…no sense of
direction. I find the peculiarity of our
experience very accidental, indeed.
We are not backward because of
whom we are; the tendency, I
believe, is to subscribe to that view.
I shall give you an instance. If one
allows that we can only be the
product of our history then we shall
continue to dwell on as well as in
that history. Once people have
reasoned beyond their histories, no
matter how unfortunate… What I
think we should be trying to do, at
this point, is leave behind the
confinement of slavery, repression
of any kind; live beyond it, as we
indeed have! All the terms —
colonialism, imperialism; all these
are vicissitudes of life. But really, we
should always attempt to surmount
those could-be obstacles.
Now, we know that slavery ended
some 200 years ago. Are we
maintaining that we are
permanently crippled by slavery,
unable to accomplish anything,
because of an event that occurred in
our past? There is no justification;
you can show why you are late in
arriving, not why you are not on the
job!!!

THE TROUBLE WITH NIGERIA
Which of these factors, in your view,
constitutes the greatest danger
surrounding Nigerian politics? A
defective government structure, a
muddled inseparable constitution,
or a corrupt, visionless leadership?

You could just simplify the question.
Once you’ve factored corruption into
the equation, you have your culprit!
How does one describe it?
Corruption is visionless, the very
worst thing. We must be
determined to uproot it. I say this,
because, sadly, I have to accept that
I haven’t seen an incorruptible polity
anywhere in the world; so it’s a
question of reduction. Corruption
eats into everything, destroys
everything. It destroys vision, hope,
and preserves nothing.

THE ANAMBRA CRISIS
If corruption destroys everything
then what about godfatherism…
especially in your own home state,
Anambra?

Well, you cannot sidestep the fact
that godfatherism is corruption. I
don’t see any difference. Get me a
dictionary of political thought and
behind that word is corruption.

What are your feelings about the
recent events in Anambra State?

You are persistent, aren’t you?
(LAUGHTER)

We will not be forgiven if we do not
ask such a crucial question!

Well…there is no real problem in
Anambra. The problem I find in it —
that I tell fellow Nigerians — is that
for some unknown reasons, non-
indigenous leaders and rulers have
found it necessary to vest political
authority on certain indigenes of
Anambra State lacking political
address (LAUGHTER). People who
have no experience, an incredible
lack of knowledge; people whose
most recent address was in prison
or some such place; and, of all
places, Anambra – a state teeming
with intellectuals!
And then, unforgivably, the
intellectuals are subordinated to
these people without address. That
is simply a case of government
going to the dogs. What you see in
Anambra State is a reflection of
what people with vested interest
produce: chaos – that’s what they
have done. The situation in
Anambra raises the issue of political
will.

LEADERSHIP, CORRUPTION AND
THE NIGERIAN ELITE

In a sense, this is analogous to the
larger situation in the country where
you have individuals who, on their
own, exhibit excellence; tragically,
however, Nigerians collectively seem
unable to accomplish much that is
of great merit…
The problem with Nigeria is one of
ethnicity. Somehow, if we can solve
that problem… if the various ethnic
groups are made comfortable in
Nigeria, there will be less tension.
And it seems to me that this is the
reason why no graduate has ever
led Nigeria. Clearly, whoever leads
the country becomes the apex of
whatever ethnic group, interest, he
represents.
This is the
only way,
then, that
these leaders
may excel in a
country where
a great many
are graduates
of often great
intelligence.
This is their
only chance
to
subordinate;
this matters a
great deal to
such leaders.

Is this not
partly the result of the failure of
the elite to which you belong?
We imagine the elite as a
constituency – perhaps, in the
same way we may view the
military and other groups?

No, no, no; but let us talk about the
so-called elite. You cannot have a
class of elites at the national level
when there is no nation to speak of;
that’s the genesis of our problem.
What we actually have is a show of
elitism; pseudo-elites, pseudo-
intellectuals, pseudo- this and that…
to a great extent. Once we, indeed,
build a nation, there will be proper
national elite, and they will come
into their role, which is leadership.

Your political tenets in the book,
Because I am Involved, include
statements like: “Sovereignty
and power belong to the people
(p.53)” and “Leadership is the
true vocation of elitism (p.146).”
Some might see this as
evocative of incongruence in
your vision of functional politics;
would you please explain to us
this structural and ideological
paradigm?

I would like an example of the
conflict you refer to; I, actually, don’t
see that there is one.

Well, we refer to your addressing
the question of the elite and the
sovereignty of the people…you have
tried to explain that ethnic tensions
have largely made it difficult to have
a broad elite, a national elite
structure in Nigeria. But when one
talks about sovereignty and power,
and, on the other hand, the true
vocation of elitism, there seems to
be conflict between the people and
a privileged class?

No; it’s a necessary part of the
people.

Even in terms of the interests each
group represent?

The interests that the elite serve is
that of leadership and guidance;
that is its vocation in the national
structure, and there is no
organization, ethnic group that does
not develop an elite class for that
purpose. One of the things that
became very apparent in
communism is that, in every state,
the party created a political class of
elites… And it could not escape
doing so, because, actually, the
market cannot lead a nation. Power
belongs to the people, but to be
able to use that power properly, an
elite group evolves that devotes its
time to helping out, leading, and
creating a vision…

In other words, elitism is not a
dirty word per se?

No, certainly not. It is, in fact, one of
the most envied positions in every
organisation in society.

We have been talking about the
burden of corruption, and as Prof
Ikpeze had indicated earlier, this
project is aimed at articulating a
problem solving dialogue. On the
issue of corruption, Transparency
International has rated Nigeria very
poorly, what in your opinion do you
believe should be done to arrest this
blight on the nation?

I really do not think we are serious
about arresting the scourge of
corruption.

No?
In spite of the exploits of EFCC
(Economic and Financial Crimes
Commission) and ICPC (Independent
Corrupt Practices Commission)?

Corruption continues to stare us in
the face, and we turn away from it;
yet you mention EFCC…or what?!

But let us not forget the case of Tafa
Balogun, the Inspector-General of
Police…

Is he the only corrupt policeman in
the nation?

And Dariye, the governor of
Plateau State?

Is he the only politician ever to be
accused of corruption?

There are some other recent
examples like Prof. Osuji and
Chief Wabara; but we see where
you are going with this…So what
systemic approach do you
suggest?

We must, as a people, learn to ask
questions and in the process end up
with the right questions. Someone is
accused of being corrupt; yet we
permit him absolute freedom to
benefit from the proceeds of
corruption?

That means there’s no
deterrence?

Of course, not!!! Listen; my attitude
is this — basically, many Nigerians
are corrupt in their search for luxury
and for privilege…yet when I observe
someone building a mansion of
marble, his or her lavish lifestyle,
and I do not readily see any
reasonable sources of income;
should not the first thing to come to
my mind, be the question: How did
you make, how are you making your
money?
“Oga…how come, now?”
You can then say to me: “Foolish
man, haven’t you heard about that
tree in my garden?”
“What tree?”
“Ah, that special tree, that juju tree.
All the leaves are N500
notes.” (LAUGHTER)
But, we never ask that. We must all
understand that asking that
question is no accusation. Asking
such a question is purely seeking
enlightenment.
Your reply should not be to then
accuse him of being corrupt; what
you do first is say to him:
“Ahh…come show me the tree.”
When you get there, if indeed you
see the tree, and the leaves are all
N500 notes, you can then make
sure that nobody is listening before
begging him: “Please give me a
seed, now…”
There is nothing wrong in that; you
have done nothing wrong. But if you
get to his house, and there is no
such tree, you should be strong
enough to accuse him, publicly, of a
corrupt means of livelihood. Because
obviously, there is some other
method of getting money that he is
reluctant to reveal, and that is
where you exercise moral judgment.
Why should we be afraid to ask him,
can I see your tax returns for last
year? And so on. Every American is
afraid of the IRS, because it can land
on anyone’s doorstep, at any time…
and the experience can send you
straight to jail. The IRS examines
someone’s lifestyle then asks the
person to explain his or her source
of income.

Why can’t we do this in Nigeria?

If we are really keen on cutting
down on corruption, we can. Nigeria,
today, is mired in corruption. We
know people of varied investments,
we do. Why don’t we question these
over the top investments? But we
don’t. And yet we say we set up
this, we set up that…we are fighting
corruption. We are not. There are
people whose backgrounds we
know, their antecedents; we know
what jobs they’ve pursued the
whole of their lives, certainly the
resources they manage, and which
bear no relationship to what is
obvious. So why don’t we ask the
necessary questions? This is serious
business. These are the issues we
are tackling here.

The military and politics
Would you describe the incursion of
the army into politics as part of the
intractable political problems of
Nigeria?

I have never agreed with the army
going into politics. And you know
that coming from a very prominent
member of the first military
government of Nigeria, this is very
serious. It’s unfortunate; this
situation destroyed the army, and
destroyed Nigeria as well. What we
are trying to do, I hope, all of us —
is to create a Nigeria where the
military will not need to step into
politics again, never again.

If you have the opportunity, would
you define the role of the army in
Nigeria power structure, and a
strategy for putting the genie back
in the bottle and keeping it there
forever?

The first duty of the army is to
protect the sovereignty… Those who
did that before us, had this to say —
that once that power is used against
civil authority, it becomes ruthless;
the only answer is the total
disbandment of that body of armed
forces. The problem of Nigeria is this
constant attempt to patch up. The
term ‘Nigerian army’ should have
been dispensed with a long time
ago.

And what would happen to the
country’s security?

Reconstituted…it would be
reconstituted. I was part of the little
team that was sent to hold Tanzania
together when the army mutinied.
Yes, I was part of the contingent. So
there are pertinent roles for the
armed forces. All we need is the
political will. The problem lies in
trying to patch things up…find a
different role, build up an entirely
new force; we shouldn’t try to patch
anything up. That has been the
problem of Nigeria.

Sort of putting old wine in new
bottles?

Oh yes.
On Abacha
There is the criticism of your
relationship with the late dictator,
Sani Abacha; do you reflect on that
with any fondness?
No…but I liked and understood Sani
Abacha. I also discovered that most
people are cowards. A lot of people
never made up their minds about
Sani Abacha; they simply reflected
the likes and dislikes of other
people. He is someone I had
interesting discussions with. I have
often been told that I am that man
every Nigerian officer loves and
admires… You see, even though he
was a dictator, Abacha addressed
me with the utmost respect. To the
end, he respected me…and he
asked me a great many questions,
some of which were personal…even
down to politics. I was never his
adviser, no; but he showed great
trust in my judgment. You
understand that we are from two
different sides, but…I certainly prefer
him to a number of wishy-washy
people we have in Aso Rock now.

ETHNICITY, ETHNIC RIVALRY
AND POLITICS

Ndigbo have contributed maximally
to the development and building of
the Nigerian nation; why have other
hegemonic ethnic nationalities been
reluctant to allow Ndigbo access to
power at the centre.

Well, if you understand human
nature, there’s nothing people are
more suspicious of than success.
When one is successful, what one
generates is jealousy, even within
one’s own family. So we should not
be surprised by that. If one is
beaten down on all sides, yet
continues to make great success,
people fear that they will become
slaves once such a person takes on
leadership. It is easier simply to hold
one down. You should know this,
actually, that if you lock people up
in a room, and tell them to choose a
leader, invariably, the man who will
emerge is the weak one…
Because?
He’s the least threatening to them…
And the strong ones will be busy
fighting one another, seeking
dominance?
Yes all our neighbours are afraid of
us…I was in Sokoto [a couple of
months ago] speaking to a
gentleman who was part of the
planning committee for their
bicentenary celebration. I told this
man… “Oh wonderful;
congratulations…the records are
there, for while you are celebrating a
bicentenary, we are going to invite
you and the whole of Nigeria and
the world for our millennial
celebration. We’ve been here for
more than a thousand years; at
least the artifacts that come from
Igbo Ukwu say so.” And that ended
the conversation.

The poem cited in Because I am
Involved talks about no man being
an island. But a recurring
controversy, as it were, concerns the
Igbo around the issue of the
Nigerian civil war; her relationship
with her neighbours? Could you
comment on this?

I have studied the Igbo, and I have
found that an Igbo man is really two
men in one. There is the inner Igbo,
which is guarded jealously. He alone
knows the truth about himself. He is
his own authority. He subscribes to
this, and that is it. He does not want
you to know this; in fact he resents
your discovering this. The Igbo man,
if he knows that you know certain
things about him, becomes angry;
not because he hates you, no; he
becomes angry, because he feels he
has been denuded of his essence.
(LAUGHTER) Basically, he examines
every situation he finds himself in
then tries to blend into the
situation. What he doesn’t want
actually is to stick out …Everywhere
in the world you’ll find him. The
thing that is unique about the Igbo
man is that he blends into any
society he lives in.
As a matter of fact, when I was
traveling to begin my national youth
service, my father told me that if I
did not find an Igbo trader wherever
I was posted, I should leave the
place, because it meant that it was
inhospitable to human beings.
(LAUGHTER)

Are you implying that?

That is true…he is right. When you
see an Igbo man he must be a hard
worker. What I know of the Igbo
man, too, is that wherever he is —
like a man I used to know who lived
in Alaska — he still maintains he is a
‘Chief,’ but is married to two
Eskimos and has fully adapted to
their values. All the way…
That is essentially an Igbo man.
Once you like to blend in, you are
known for something…and what is
that? Enterprise. In Brazil,
descendants of the Yoruba nation
maintain their values, speak Yoruba,
worship Sango – which is a very
good thing in itself.
But the Ndigbo? Your fellow Igbo will
call you quietly, and tell you, “biko a
laputa kwan anyi” (Please, don’t
betray us). Because that is the
thing; don’t focus attention on us.
We want to do whatever we want to
do quietly. I say to people, it’s not
accidental that the greatest beast in
our mythology is the tortoise (mbe).
It doesn’t matter how you get there,
the important thing is that you do
get there. The thing about the
tortoise is that he measures
success, no matter what, with
patience. The Igbo man is confident
that he will get there, and will get
there before you. For good or bad,
that is Ndigbo.

How has this profile you outlined
affected the political prospects of
Ndigbo in Nigeria of today?

One thing I note, because of my
own position, is the struggle
between the inner Igbo and the
public Igbo. There are many Igbo
who feel it is wrong to proclaim your
Igbo ethnicity, because it might
attract enemies. And this affects our
politics. Today, for example, a lot of
people still wonder… Ojukwu, right;
he’s gone round and round and he’s
still succeeding. The very, very good
Igbo would do anything, make any
sacrifice to the Igbo cause, but they
don’t think it should be proclaimed.
In refusing proclamation, then, they
don’t understand how, to that
extent, they have abdicated their
leadership rights, because the
people you are leading need to see
you out there, proclaiming it. We
have a great deal in us, and I am
very proud of…in fact, there is
nothing I love more than provoking
somebody to say, “I am an Igbo.”
And I say, “No, I’m not. I am the
veritable Igbogboligbo!”

What does that mean?

You wouldn’t
know. We won’t tell you that, but
that remains the core of the Igbo
man. They are a few of us like that.
You should see the look of my
Yoruba peers when I say that
(LAUGHTER). My Hausa friends are
not so shocked. The word might be
more difficult for them to
pronounce, but they seem
instinctively to know where one is
going.

This is the current edition of a
national daily on Biafra, and a quote
here says: “Ojukwu’s name is still
revered in Igbo land. It is a name
that represents Igboland, thus
making him chairman of the Board
of Trustees of a faction, is to
relegate him.” How do you react to
this perception of you as a sacred
Igbo man held in high esteem, but
unavoidably has to participate in
day-to-day politics?

Certain issues will always be in
conflict. I am, above all things,
indebted to Ndigbo, Ndi Nnewi.
Their generosity towards me, self-
sacrifice…in fact; it would be wrong if
I deny serving them in any capacity,
the Igbo…the second part of your
question?

The fact that the Igbo revere you…

As for my people’s reverence for me,
well; I have a line I use. I beg
people, “Please, please, don’t choke
me with so much love, because it’s
almost desecration if you breathe
like a human being, and people
don’t want you to do that. I say very
often; always remember that when
you are in a crowd, and someone is
striving through the crowd, and he
is given space to come to the fore,
that disheveled, even maimed, man
you see, mud all over him,
perspiring, is a hero; for he has
been through battles and come out
victorious. It is better than having a
statue erected in one’s honour. I
prefer to be continuously part of the
fight for emancipation than staying
behind to be revered and having
chickens slaughtered in my honour.
Let me be revered when I’m dead
and gone, because there’s nothing
else left, but encouraged while I am
alive. That’s my attitude to life.

One nagging problem is the
question of a Pan Igbo group, and
its political positioning. Given their
experience, world view, etc, why has
it been difficult to form a pan Igbo
solidarity that will produce a political
leader for the country?

In the first place, this country does
not belong only to the Igbo, and is
not made only of the Igbo; bear in
mind that all politics in Nigeria is
ethno-centric. The way we look at
things in this country is — what you
gain, I lose. No matter how brilliant
you are, as long as you are an Igbo
man, you will not be the choice of
the Hausa, or the Yoruba, for that
matter. You are brilliant, but an Igbo
man. Everybody looks upon
leadership as subordinating oneself
to another. Even I have sent for, and
said to at least, five people: “How
can you work as a Personal Assistant
to somebody like that? I know…I say
that, as well. It’s a difficult thing to
get around…

Is it a question of pride?

Yes. Now this so-called objectivity…
and we can use it, and say we are
all the same… except that somehow,
sooner or later…we choose sides. A
lot of people will take exception to
what I am saying, but then again, a
great many will not; I think it’s the
truth. I am first and foremost an
Igbo man. God in his infinite wisdom
created me so.

And why are you so proud of being
an Igbo man?

Because I know that as an Igbo
man, I excel. There are no two ways
about it.

Dr. Samuel Johnson, the English
lexicographer, described language
as the pedigree of nations. People
who have lost their language have
lost a moral, distinctive heritage.

Ndigbo have not been investing
adequately on the development and
preservation of their language, and,
indeed, in the cities, you find the
increasing popularity of what is
called Engl-Igbo (a combination of

English and Igbo expressions).
Do you agree that Ndigbo should
be investing on the preservation
and strengthening of the Igbo
language and culture?

Of course, I think so. I think so very
much. And I will do anything again
to increase the usage of the
language, encourage its
modernisation. There are too many
things one loses when one is
without one’s language. One loses,
certainly, a large portion of his or
her culture. And to prevent this loss
of culture, we haven’t done enough.
I remember reading the narrative of
an Igbo slave – I can’t remember his
name now, Gustav…

Vassa…Olaudah Equiano?

Yes…I initially found his description
of his culture outrageous. But
during my exile, after the war, I re-
read the book, and behold — what
he was talking about was something
I knew, and had grown up with:
“Ebilichie. Onye bilichie….” That this
statement should have existed in
his book, all these years, and we
Igbo have yet to apprehend, and
remark on it…

Can you suggest some practical
ways in which Igbo solidarity
and common interest can be
restored or forged, beside the
activities of political groups like
Ohaneze?

That’s truly the function of Ohaneze
… but I have my grudges. I don’t
believe you can lead a people
without knowing where the
obstacles are. I’m not convinced
that they know who their enemies
are. And if you don’t know the
enemy is, how can you lead me in a
battle? You understand? The state
executives cannot be nominated by
agents of the enemy; our governors,
even though they are not
constitutionally agents, have opted
to become agents of Obasanjo.

What do you mean by that
statement, before you go on?

That is the way they look at their
positions, that they are agents; they
are people set over us by the
Federal government, not as
individuals mandated by the people
to govern…to serve. In the
agglomeration known as Nigeria,
well meaning people have limited
power, limited influence to effect
change… You have two choices… to
work for change and bear the
consequences, or to appease the
federal government. Many opt for
the latter choice…the easier choice…

Would this imply the reasons for
which you have openly supported
MASSOB?

Yes, I refuse to be frightened by
people or intimidated, because they
have money. You need more than
words to intimidate me. Eh…
because they complain about
BIAFRA, BIAFRA… therefore….go to
hell. I can say it in front of you
[angry]: BIAFRA, BIAFRA, BIAFRA,
BIAFRA, BIAFRA, BIAFRA…If you want
to burst with rage, go ahead. That
word was in the lexicon of that
particular area long before we were
born. The Portuguese found the
kingdom of Biafra…it’s the normal
thing to call a spade, a spade.
That’s all. There are too many
things we are afraid of. One of the
things that worry me is that we
ended this war, the whole Nigeria/
Biafran war, without a conference. I
have continued to wait for that
conference. Under Abacha, I
watched for that conference, under
Obasanjo, now, I am still waiting for
the conference. When I go forward
to “that Dialogue,” I go forward in
the innate belief that finally, I am
going to represent our people…at a
peace conference.
Agitation for a sovereign
national dialogue

Would you rather have a sovereign
national conference being
advocated by some groups?

I have always asked for a sovereign
national conference!!! I have always
been an advocate for it.
It never bothered you that the
criticism against a sovereign
national conference could lead to
balkanisation of the country?
If it is necessary to split up the
country — remember that the
country is made for the people, not
the people for the country. If, in the
wisdom of Nigerians, they want to
split up why shouldn’t they? One of
the greatest assets God gave to
human beings is choice. I feel that
balkanisation is a very strong term,
and I don’t know that many
Nigerians truly know what it
means… But it’s a word that is used
to intimidate millions of Nigerians
(LAUGHTER) It reminds me of the
time when, on a campaign tour, the
Great Zik was speaking — he was
giving a speech in Onitsha — and
he said : “…As a result of this, I can
see clearly the day in which we will
have an autobahn, when you’ll all
wear jewelry; there will be schools
everywhere, hospitals everywhere,
we would have factories, and our
children will go to work, and we will
be rich. In fact we will have an
AUTOBAHN.” The applause after that
speech was heavier than any I have
since heard. (LAUGHTER)

Meanwhile, nobody knew what
autobahn meant…

And the people began to whisper:
Biko, kedu ife bu autobahn? (Please,
what is an autobahn?} Inuro ko
kwulie? (Didn’t you hear when he
said it?) (LAUGHTER) So this is the
sort of thing they say to you,
“balkanization… Hei.”
It sounds like a disease…
It doesn’t worry me; we have that
choice, and we’ll get where we need
to get.

THE CIVIL WAR
Nigeria’s post independence
history is characterized by great
upheaval and instability… much
more so than in many other
African countries except,
perhaps, the Sudan. Why is this
so?

The sheer size of Nigeria is a great
challenge for management. That’s
everything. We can’t escape it.
The civil war remains a key issue we
keep returning to —

(cuts in), it’s not a civil war; it’s the
Nigeria/ Biafra war. When you get
back to your room, and you are
writing this interview up, call it what
you like; but with me, it’s the
Nigeria/Biafra war.

The Nigeria/Biafra war remains a
very big issue that has refused to go
away; perhaps, will never go away.
What is your contemporary
perspective on it, leading to the
national dialogue; is this experience
one we can ever overcome, and
achieve
full reconciliation?

(Pause) We will achieve full
reconciliation when we can sit down
and have an earnest discussion
about the war…such a gathering will
be of great advantage to Nigerians,
not just Ndigbo. And I believe once
we all go forward from such a
discussion, the way Nigerians think
about themselves will never be the
same… it would be a great thing.
Reconciliation – what is it? Just make
Nigeria such a place that you’ll not
be treading on my toes, that’s all…
and that can be done. I can see a
Nigeria where being President is not
the only aspiration to have. I can
see a Nigeria of self-realization
where somebody would rather
become the Archbishop of Lagos
than the President of Nigeria,
because there are other areas of
self-fulfillment, not just greed. And
so on and so forth.
When there’s justice for the
federating units… Yes, it can be
done.

Against this backdrop, was the war
inevitable?

Events of the time made war
possible…not me. My good friend,
Jack; he was 33 then, and so was I.
That, in addition, made war almost
inevitable. My good friend, Jack, had
a smattering knowledge of the
eastern region, but I grew up in it,
and that created its own conflict.
And so on and so forth. There are so
many things… My good friend, Jack;
his people sent me a Christmas
present of a headless corpse. He
heard about it…I received it! There’s
conflict even in that experience, and
so on and so forth. But to be honest,
war could have been avoided; after
all, all you need to stop war is to
say, I won’t fight! So it could have
been avoided. But having fought it,
my prayer is that we move forward,
and learn from the past lessons of
the war. We cannot wish it away.
Whenever the history of Nigeria is
written, whatever that is, there must
be something written on the war. If
you leaf through that book and
there’s no mention of it, then throw
the book away, because that is not
the history of Nigeria… But you’ll
draw from the book, the requisite
lessons; if it has something on the
war.

So what would you say is the most
essential lesson?

(Long pause) Give and take!
Whenever you go to take it all, you
are in trouble…

Considering that it’s been
almost forty years since the war,
do you see the resurgence of
agitations by ethnic nationalities
as validation for going to war?

Put in another way, I find it very
much a vindication of myself. I am a
leader of the Ethnic Nationalities
Forum…and its part of my
constituency…I am who I am. God
made me first onye Igbo (an Igbo
person). If you are a Christian, you
will understand that you cannot
invalidate what God created. It
serves one best to work with God’s
creation to its best purpose…to
better lives, that’s all.

Anyone reading your book, Because
I am Involved, would clearly come to
terms with your deep convictions
and passions especially for Biafra. Why have you chosen to write a
pungent book articulating issues
from a philosophical perspective
rather than a memoir, which would
be longer, more robust and detailed,
in nature?

I don’t misplace the need for
memoirs… so I won’t say I won’t
write any memoirs. In any case, how
do you live out the boredom of old
age if you are not writing memoirs?

Does that imply you are writing one
at the moment?

Oh, I’ve been writing for the past
twenty years. And anybody who
knows me well will tell you that I’m a
wild note taker. Today, I don’t see
as clearly as I used to, but I assure
you that when I leave you, I will sit
down with my staff, and note a few
things deriving from this
conversation, enriched by my
contact with you. Yes, I’ll do that.

Vanguard newspaper